Markets Dip As Investors Wait For Cues
Investors wavered as they weighed the lack of cues with the likelihood of markets staying strong thanks to the return of foreign portfolio investors
On Episode 460 of The Core Report, financial journalist Govindraj Ethiraj talks to Ameera Shah, Executive Chairperson and whole-time Director of Metropolis Healthcare as well as Jairam VG, Founder of Hyperlink Brand Solutions.
(00:00) Stories of the Day
(00:41) Markets dip as investors wait for cues
(03:29) Gold frenzy grips Indian buyers
(07:49) Why the cancer diagnostics market is growing
(19:18) Legend Zakir Hussain’s unfinished agenda
NOTE: This transcript contains the host's monologue and includes interview transcripts by a machine. Human eyes have gone through the script but there might still be errors in some of the text, so please refer to the audio in case you need to clarify any part. If you want to get in touch regarding any feedback, you can drop us a message on [email protected].
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Good morning, it's Tuesday, the 17th of December and this is Govindraj Ethiraj, headquartered and broadcasting and streaming from Mumbai, India’s financial capital.
Our top stories and themes for the day
Markets dip as investors wait for cues
Gold frenzy grips Indian buyers.
Why the cancer diagnostics market is growing
Legend Zakir Hussain’s unfinished agenda
Markets Lose Steam
Investors wavered as they weighed the lack of cues with the likelihood of markets staying strong thanks to the return of foreign portfolio investors.
But Asia was weak and that was sufficient cue to cause the markets in India to dip.
The 30-share Sensex closed at 81,748.57, down 384.55 points or 0.47 per cent while the NSE Nifty50 ended 100 points lower at 24,668.25.
The broader markets were back in action with the Nifty Midcap100 ending higher by 0.77 per cent and the Nifty Smallcap100 index, which ended higher by 0.64 per cent.
Meanwhile, those who want to raise capital are continuing to show confidence.
LG Electronics is thinking of increasing the valuation of its Indian unit to as much as $15 billion in a planned listing in Mumbai next year after initial feedback from analysts and investors, Bloomberg is reporting.
Interestingly, LG’s shares have dropped about 13 per cent this year in Seoul, leaving the company with a market value of $10 billion.
So the subsidiary potentially would be worth more than the parent as it happens and thus a good reflection of the Indian market’s potential for its products and of course investor appetite..
The earlier valuation eyed was apparently $13 billion
A formal roadshow for LG Electronics India Pvt.’s IPO will start in the next two months and is targeting a listing in the first half of 2025, Bloomberg said.
LG has already filed a draft red herring prospectus with the SEBI a few weeks ago and could raise $1 billion to $1.5 billion in the IPO, people familiar with the matter have said.
Some $18 billion has been raised via IPOs this year, including a record $3.3 billion IPO by carmaker Hyundai Motor Co.’s Indian unit in October.
Meanwhile, the net worth of India’s 2 key billionaires, Mukesh Ambani and Gautam Adani have dropped below the $100 billion in recent months, according to Bloomberg which in turn comes amidst broader financial struggles in their core business.
Mukesh Ambani’s net worth, which stood at $120.8 billion in July has dropped to $96.7 billion as of December 13, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index (BBI).
The decline reflects challenges in Reliance’s core businesses, particularly in the energy and retail sectors, which have underperformed in recent months.
Gautam Adani, once the world’s second-richest person, has seen his net worth drop from $122.3 billion in June to $82.1 billion in December, according to the BBI. The steep decline follows a series of allegations and investigations that have shaken investor confidence in the Adani Group.
Despite all of this, India’s top 20 billionaires are still richer by $67 billion this year.
Gold Frenzy
India's merchandise trade deficit in November widened to a record level, thanks to a massive jump in gold imports, while exports fell due to weaker global demand.
Inbound shipments of gold climbed to a record high of $14.8 billion last month, more than doubling from $7.13 billion in October, data showed, as the fall in global gold prices in November prompted many importers to ramp up inventories to meet rising demand.
The overall trade deficit in November stood at $37.84 billion, according to data released by the commerce ministry, higher than economists' forecast of $23.9 billion, according to a Reuters poll.
The deficit stood at $27.14 billion in October.
Analysts told Reuters gold imports have been a major culprit in the overshoot of trade deficit, up nearly 50% year to date.
Reasons attributed to high gold demand are of course the cut in import tariffs from 15% to 6% in the Union Budget in June this year and of course festival and wedding demand, apart from strong investment demand.
Meanwhile, India’s merchandise exports contracted 4.85 per cent to $32.1 billion in November while imports increased by 27 per cent to $69.95 billion, leading to a record trade deficit of $37.8 billion, commerce department data reported by the Business Standard said.
Meanwhile, the United Nations Trade and Development (UNCTAD), in its Global Trade Update earlier this month, said the United States likely becoming more protectionist, inward-looking industrial policies of many countries, a threat of renewed and expanded trade wars along with ongoing geopolitical tensions are set to “negatively influence” international trade in 2025.
Meanwhile the rupee declined to its weakest closing level on record on Monday hurt by a rise in U.S. bond yields, weakness in the Chinese yuan and data which showed that India's merchandise trade deficit widened to a record high in November, Reuters said.
The rupee closed at 84.8625 against the U.S. dollar, down nearly 0.1% on the day.
Crude And Transport
Oil prices fell after a slew of economic data from China reinforced concerns over weakening demand in the biggest importer, Bloomberg reported, adding that Brent was near $74 a barrel after rising almost 5% last week.
China’s crude refining dipped to the lowest in five months in November, while apparent oil demand fell 2.1%. Retail sales growth was well below estimates.
Elsewhere, in other signs of slowing demand, spot rates for hauling crude on the largest vessels from the Middle East to China, a key route, have sunk by a third this year as demand in the top importer slows and OPEC+ delays the restart of idled supply.
The industry’s go-to measure for the route — which excludes loadings in Iran — typically rises in the final quarter on seasonal factors compared with the preceding three months, but it bucked that trend this year, Bloomberg said.
“VLCCs have borne the brunt of this year’s surprise slowdown in Chinese crude imports,” said Henry Curra, head of research at brokerage Braemar, referring to Very Large Crude Carriers, which typically haul about 2 million barrels.
Manufacturing Output
India's private sector output grew at the fastest pace in four months, preliminary readings from a survey showed, helping the economy end 2024 on a positive note underpinned by sturdier demand in services and manufacturing and record jobs growth.
Monday's HSBC's December flash India Composite Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) , compiled by S&P Global, rose to 60.7 this month - matching August's reading - after dropping to 58.6 in November.
Such strength hasn't been seen since 2008 when the global financial crisis hit, suggesting strong private sector expansion.
"The small rise in the headline manufacturing PMI in December was mainly driven by gains in current production, new orders and employment," said Ines Lam, economist at HSBC.
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And commodity news that can affect you as well.
Cocoa futures reached a fresh record in New York as the market once again reckons with supply concerns.
Prices for the crop soared earlier this year thanks to weak harvests in West Africa — the major production hub.
adverse weather further threatens the region’s farms, limiting the chance to rebuild already low global stockpiles.
A Market For Cancer Testing
India’s second-largest pathology laboratory (pathlab) chain, the Mumbai-based Metropolis Healthcare, last week announced it was acquiring the Delhi--based specialised cancer diagnostics player Core Diagnostics, valuing Core at Rs 246.8 crore.
The deal would involve Metropolis acquiring a 100 per cent stake in Core through a combination of cash and stock, financing 55 per cent of the transaction in cash and 45 per cent through an equity swap.
Super-specialty tests now constitute 37 per cent of Metropolis’ revenue, and with Core’s acquisition, this would increase to 41 per cent, the Business Standard reported while oncology tests currently account for 4 per cent of Metropolis’ revenue, which will rise to 10 per cent.
While super speciality tests are obviously important to laboratories from a revenue and margin point of view, what does that reflect in terms of changing health profiles of patients in general and specific.
Or more specifically, are there more cancer cases than before or is just the testing opportunity increasing.
I put this question to Ameera Shah, the Managing Director of Metropolis..
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Ameera Shah: Definitely cancer is going up, there's no question about it. And globally, oncology and neurology are expected to be the fastest growing diseases in the next 10 years across the world, right? India is going to be no different.
And therefore, you are seeing cancer cases going up significantly, but you're also finding that things that could not be diagnosed before, and now you're able to diagnose it, but our science is advancing and you're able to get better quality of testing.
Govindraj Ethiraj: So tell me about oncology testing. I mean, how better or good is it today compared to what it was earlier? What does it mean to someone who suspects that they have some kind of cancerous growth in their body or tumour?
And what could they do about it, in the context of what you're doing as well?
Ameera Shah: So we just start with somebody who's perfectly well, right? And now there's this whole conversation around, you can do predictive cancer testing, where you can find out to a scan or a test and find out there's something going on your body. And honestly, I don't think there's too much weight to that yet.
The science around it is still a little bit wobbly. So I would not recommend people say, I can do one blood test and diagnose all kinds of cancer in my body. That's not scientifically true.
You can go get a sonography done. You can go get, nobody does a PET as a screening mechanism for sure. But you certainly can get a sonography done.
You can get a colonoscopy done every year or every couple of years. And I think those two are good sort of screening technologies, right? Now let's say that you found some sort of a lump somewhere and the doctor says, yes, this feels structurally like it potentially could be something.
You then need to go and get a biopsy done. So the next step is actually to get a small piece of that tissue and you then send it to a lab like ours to get a biopsy done. Now people say, what's there in a biopsy?
You know, so many people do it. Now we have to remember a biopsy is determined by the quality of the person who's seeing the biopsy, because it's done to the microscope. So it's not something as simple as a machine just doing it.
It's actually somebody using their expertise. So the way we operate is we have super specialists doing biopsy cases. There's not just a histopathologist.
You have a subspecialist histopathologist, meaning somebody who's done only kidney biopsies. Somebody's done only lung biopsies, breast biopsies. So what we've done is we found docs who had expertise in a sub organ and therefore they've become an expert on that organ and they are able to therefore pick up things that other people may not be able to pick up.
So you first get the biopsy done, hopefully accurately. If you're finding that, okay, there's something there, then the doc will say, okay, now get a sort of a PET scan done and let's figure out how much it's spread or where it's spread and what phase it is, et cetera, what stage it is. And then they'll need to do surgery.
Now before you do surgery, you'll also need to do a bunch of blood biomarkers, cancer tumour markers. You know, some of these are like cancer CA 15.3, CA 19.9, et cetera, et cetera. They're all for different kinds of organs.
Post-surgery, you're doing targeted therapies who now can do oncogenomics to figure out which therapy actually works best on your body, most effectively on your body, what dosage should be given. Now all of these are new things in the market and therefore with better testing, the treatment is actually getting far more precise, far more targeted and far more focused. And that's where we are really seeing cancer care is actually advancing and a lot more people are Right.
Govindraj Ethiraj: And tell us about the composition of your super speciality testing versus the non-super speciality or what I guess is the more run-of-the-mill testing, which I'm sure a lot of people go and do every day. And how is that looking between 24 and 25? And are there any shifts within that?
Ameera Shah: So what Metropolis does is, I mean, we obviously, when they say run-of-the-mill means we are still talking about maybe one of the 20 labs in the country would do these kinds of tests, right? We probably already have a list of about 250-300 varieties of cancer tests, which cover what in our world we call as the routine and the specialised testing. But in a common man's world, these are anyway very esoteric tests, right?
So we were already doing all of these and we were providing services to oncologists across the country. Now with Core Diagnostics, they have brought in a super specialised and specialised category of tests, which are another 4-500 varieties of tests overall. And they have brought in these test parameters that we were not doing.
So now end-to-end, from beginning to finish, you have everything under one menu. And the reason this is helpful, because somebody may say, okay, so what, I was sending it to Metropolis, I was sending it to Core, what's the big deal now, it's together. Because you have to remember for a doctor, for a surgeon, actually dealing with one lab, where you're actually dealing for all test parameters about one patient's history, makes their life and their decision making much easier.
Because the way it works is the doctor can call up the histopathologist or the cancer specialist in Metropolis, and now talk about all the different tests and the history of that patient. And our doctor actually works with the cancer surgeon to help them actually make the best decisions. So this makes a big difference, rather than information being in different pockets in different labs.
And obviously, generally, obviously, the quality and the guidelines and the kind of specialists we have in Metropolis, of course, are at a level above everybody else.
Govindraj Ethiraj: What about non-cancer? What's that portfolio looking like in Metropolis as a whole? And is that changing?
Or do you see any shifts that are planned or projected in the next few months here?
Ameera Shah: No, certainly. I mean, look, we have about 4000 varieties of tests in our menu, right? So we pretty much do everything that you can get globally available.
Our neurology portfolio is extremely strong, our gastro portfolio, women and care, all of them, extremely strong. And I think we are anyway adding about 100 tests per year that we knew through R&D. And then we add it to our test menu.
So the idea is to constantly stay innovative, cutting edge, and really bring all the tests that are available globally across the world to Indians, so that at no point of time anybody can say that Indians don't have access to the best healthcare and certainly not the best diagnostics. So that's our goal. And that's always been sort of how we've stayed at the pioneering end of most of these steps.
Govindraj Ethiraj: So give me an example of a test or two that you've added recently. And what does that reflect in terms of what's changing in disease profile or disease conditions?
Ameera Shah: See, for example, one of the tests which I really like is the hereditary cancer profile. So for example, at this point of time, if somebody has cancer in their family, often cancers can be inherited. Some of them are not, but some of them can be inherited.
And it's difficult to tell actually which ones have been inherited, which ones not. The way to do it is actually when somebody in the family has got cancer and assuming that they've survived or even if not, and you've been able to figure out the mutation in their gene pool that has actually caused it. You are then able to search for those mutations in other members of the family for the inherited cancer disorders, right?
And you're able to see if somebody actually has a potential trait or a propensity to that cancer again. So I'll give you a story of my own family where on my husband's side, his cousin, you know, was diagnosed at the age of 30 with colorectal cancer, right? And when he found it, it was just by chance.
And he had some symptoms. He went, he got a colonoscopy done and they found that they quickly did surgery on him and he was re-digitally, I mean, 25, 30 years old, right? But then we knew that there was a chance of this being sort of in the hereditary pool.
And with his brother, we did exactly that. We checked all the sort of mutations. And after that, when he found out that he had a propensity, he was getting a colonoscopy done every year.
And in one of those colonoscopies, he actually caught again, early, you know, colon cancer. You know, it just tells you how through this testing, it makes you more aware. It makes you more educated.
And therefore you're able to watch out for something and catch it early. And both of them are doing perfectly fine today. And I've come through a very difficult phase in their lives and, but they've come out healthy and surviving as well.
So, you know, I think there's a great boon for early testing, but assuming it's scientifically accurate. And therefore I have a problem with these companies who commercially try to sell these things when they are not actually scientifically really there yet. So the stuff obviously that we are putting up on our test menu is scientifically stuff that we know is actually bang on cancer, I mean, science-wise, and it's not going to be something just commercial.
Govindraj Ethiraj: Right. Last question. So if you are looking at other kinds of acquisitions or forays in, let's say 2025, what would that be?
Or what nature or what specific area would that be?
Ameera Shah: See, we've got currently two strategies that we're sort of pursuing. One strategy is what we've done many of. We've done about 23 of these acquisitions over the last 20 odd years, right?
Where we said that, look, let's go into a geography where Metropolis does not have a strong consumer brand, that could be a city. And let's find the leading player in that market. And let's find a way to partner with that leading player by doing a majority acquisition in that business, using that lab as a base in that city, and then growing in the peripheries from there.
And what Metropolis brings to the table is we bring the wide test menu that we have, because most of these local labs only do five, 600 varieties of tests. So we bring our test menu to that city that makes it available for all the people living there. We go and connect with all the doctors to create education about all the different tests that are available.
And that's how we continue to grow in that geography, right? So that strategy we continue to do in markets where Metropolis doesn't have a strong consumer brand, right? While this will be predominantly in North and East, there could be markets also in West and South where we don't have a strong, like specific cities.
The second strategy is actually more new for us and Ford has actually fallen under that strategy, which is about acquiring scientific innovative capabilities, which we may have on multiple other areas, but we may not have on a particular therapeutic segment. Like in this case, we didn't have on super specialised oncology. And to bring in that company into under our umbrella and take those products and services and now distribute them far and wide across 750 cities and towns that Metropolis is presenting.
So core brought three advantages to the table. One was, of course, the fact that it had all this advanced onco, but second, that it had a lot of its business in North and East, which of course is a non-core market for us. So these two were sort of strategic fits, I would say.
And the third, you know, that the financial valuation we are actually paying for it was very reasonable because we are going to create actually majority of the profit pool in our company after acquiring it. So the second strategy would be similar.
Govindraj Ethiraj: Right, Ameera. Thank you so much for joining me.
Ameera Shah: Thanks so much, Govind. Always a pleasure to chat.
A Percussion Legend Is No More
Zakir Hussain, whose "dancing fingers" made him perhaps the greatest tabla player in India ever died in San Francisco at the age of 73 from complications linked to a chronic lung disease, his family said in a statement.
He was nominated for seven Grammy awards, winning four including three this year, according to the Grammy website. He also received India's highest honour for performing artists, the Sangeet Natak Akademi Award.
Zakir was the eldest son of another legendary tabla player Ustad Alla Rakha and started his professional career at the age of 12.
By 18, he was touring internationally and would go on to work with the likes of Grateful Dead drummer Mickey Hart, cellist Yo-Yo Ma, jazz musician Herbie Hancock and virtuoso guitarist John McLaughlin, Reuters reported.
One person who worked with him and helped host his concerts including the magical 50th Anniversary Tour concert in Mumbai in January last year is V G Jairam, now running Hyperlink Brand Solutions, a leading live events company.
I reached out to Jairam in Mumbai and discovered, among other things, that Zakir had a long and unfinished agenda, quite characteristic of performers like him who never tire.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Govindraj Ethiraj: Jairam, thank you so much for joining me. You worked with Zakir for over 30 years as you were pointing out and you spoke to him or interacted with him just last month or exactly a month ago and you were looking for dates as I understand for the Mahindra Percussion Festival which also suggests that Zakir was very much in the game and he wanted to perform and come and play.
Jairam VG: It's all happened too soon and too suddenly that I'm sure that not only me but the whole music world and everyone is in total shock because when I was talking to him we were actually discussing the possibility of him, you know, trying to work dates out for the Mahindra Percussion Festival that we were planning and he was saying let me see if I can figure out those dates in March but he had to leave back in Feb, you know, because he was also doing a tour with Bela Fleck in India, you know, which was supposed to happen early Jan and there were a bunch of dates he was doing in as well and in all of this there was also a conversation that we were having with Souvik who's Shakti's manager and I'm trying to put together a few dates because they were very keen to come back to do like a thank you concert, you know, for all the love that they had received for the Grammy, you know, which was actually which kind of completed the whole 50th anniversary tour, you know, it's just too beautiful, you know, because it started in India and we went on a world tour and then finally, you know, the clowning dhoti was of course them winning the Grammy, you know, so all in all that is what it was but I never thought that that would be the last I would ever speak to him, you know, so it's really shocking.
Govindraj Ethiraj: You worked also with Shakti on that 50th world tour and one of those concerts was here in Mumbai in Jan last year that's obviously almost close to two years now, so tell us about that concert because I mean I was there and it was an absolutely fabulous experience.
Jairam VG: You know, just the fact that, you know, it was Shakti coming back after so many years and it was their 50th anniversary so there was a lot of planning that went into it and they were coming out with a studio album after almost 30-35 years, you know, so that itself was a big deal and Johnji coming together, Zakir Bhai, you know, Shankar Mahadevan, Selva Ganesh, Ganesh Rajgopalan, there was a lot of magic that was taking place behind the scenes, you know, because they put this whole album actually together remotely in COVID, you know, and that's the beauty that eventually went on to win the Grammy but what was very special also was the fact that, you know, for the Mumbai concert I was lucky enough to be able to convince the legendary Viku Vinayak Ramji, who was also one of the founding members of Shakti, to actually come and be part of the concert, you know, and I know that there are enough and more videos which are on social media, you know, which we captured them meeting each other after such a long time and it was just magical, you know, it was these three long-lost friends, you know, childlike and that's the beauty of these giants, you know, they just picked it up from where they left it, you know, they were hugging and crying and kissing and, you know, it was just dancing, it was just magic, you know, and I think I'm privileged to say that at the Trident in that room, just the musicians and all of us sitting down and jamming and chatting about so many memories, you know, that they had, you know, was magical and of course we all saw what Viku Ji at his age did on stage, no rehearsal, he just straight came on and they just picked it up from where they were, so.
Govindraj Ethiraj: And he was 80 at that time.
Jairam VG: Absolutely, he was 81 already and what you could see is how beautifully Zakir Bhai got him into that comfort zone and that's the person that he was because he was not someone who was regularly playing but he came out of that, performed with them and I think Zakir Bhai gave him a beautiful intro, you know, in terms of musically and allowing him to do what he did and supported him so gracefully and that is what he was, he was a wonderful man. In fact, we did Bombay, we did Delhi, we did Bangalore and we did the Calcutta and sold out shows and there's one anecdote I remember and it is always used to be a running joke, you know, he would always tell me to make tea, he said, chai likhao, chai banao, you know, and there's a particular way he would have his tea, so I would make that tea and I remember giving him the tea in Calcutta and, you know, he had that and then he was very quirky, you know, he had a great quirky sense of humour and I asked him, I said, Zakir Bhai, was the chai good? So, he says, yaar, pachas paise ka kami ho gaya yeh chai.
So, I said, okay, I'll try next time. And what happened after that is, you know, funnier because the concert got over, standing ovation and, you know, all of that happened at the Calcutta Cricket Club and when he walked down, he came to me and he said, I hope you like what I did. So, I said, you know, Zakir Bhai, sab was fantastic but pachas paise ka farg rahe gaya.
So, he actually boxed me and he said, you got me correct. So, you know, it was just one of those funny moments where he was very childlike, you know, so all that I can say is that he was a very emotional person, very childlike and spoke from the heart and always celebrated others and that was the beauty of it all. I have so many backstage memories with them which are stories and which can go on and on but it's just that he was a giant of a person, a giant heart and of course, musically we are nobody to even, you know, say what he was.
I can just say that I don't think there'll be another tabla player of his calibre ever again.
Govindraj Ethiraj: And he's obviously left a mark on many people. And for someone like you who's been in live entertainment in all its glory all these years in India, what is the one or two things that has influenced you personally in the way he's changed you or made you look at things differently?
Jairam VG: One of the most crucial things or the most important thing that I would say that we've learned from Zakir Bhai is discipline, you know, and respect for other's times. There has not been a single occasion that I can remember in the last 30 years, we've done many shows together, whether it's corporate or whether it is festivals or concerts, he would never be late. He would always be early, he would respect everybody's time, his co-artists' time and he was a stickler when it came for sound checks.
And of course, he would be a pretty strict guy when it came to his sound check and would really drive sound engineer, you know, nuts till he got that sound right. And I think just the discipline of being there on time and ensuring that everything works as per how we want it and would ask, would always ask everybody else to say that, is there anything you want me to do? Is there anything that I am not doing right?
You know, he was very humble. Also, I would say help us hone ourselves. In a sense, I would say, you know, it's pretty much like Mr. Bachchan coming on time on a set. That's the guy he was. Discipline was his biggest and that's something that I will always learn from him.
Govindraj Ethiraj: You brought him and MF Hussain together for a very interesting performance, MF Hussain painting and Zakir Hussain playing the tabla in Bombay.
Jairam VG: It would not be right to say I brought them together. I was part of that event. And it was actually the Eskomar group, you know, long back when they launched Reed and Taylor, you know, the shootings.
They did an event and it was just that the curation happened. And a very interesting thing that took place almost 25 years back was a live performance by Zakir Bhai and a live painting to that music and his percussion performance by MF Hussain, you know, which happened at Turf Club for an inviting audience. And it was magical.
It was absolutely magical to see the two maestros on top of their game, really inspiring each other. And it was not staged or it was something as a new concept. And that's another thing.
You always try out something new. So you see any of his musical experiments, you know, he has played with so many people from across the spectrum of music, you know, whether it's Mickey Hart or whether it's Bella Fleck or whether it is Chick, like you name it and he's there not only from the Indian perspective, but also from the international perspective. So he was someone who was always experimental, always wanting to go there and figure out new stuff.
And I'm sure that he's touched so many lives, so many lives. Like I was talking to Selva Ganesh and Shankar Mahadevan. They were in tears.
They're broken. He meant the world to them, right? Because John G and Zakir Bhai in a sense were the members who took these into their fold and actually exposed them and took them around and have honed them into who they are.
So that's the kind of emotion and joy that they've shared. So I think gone too soon is what I would say. Heartbreaking.
Govindraj Ethiraj: Jairam, I would entirely agree with you and we will all indeed miss him. Thank you so much for joining me.
Jairam VG: Thank you. Thank you.
