NSDC CEO Ved Mani Tiwari On Connecting Education, Industry And Government For Workforce Readiness

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Hi, welcome to the Core Reports Weekend Edition, I am joined by Ved Mani Tiwari, the Chief Executive Officer of the National Skill Development Corporation, who hails from private sector and has split it between private and public and is now back in public, Ved thank you so much for joining me. So, you know we are going to talk about the NSDC and what it does, but in your own words first can you define for us, what is the scale size and objective and approach of the NSDC in addressing India's skill problem.

So, first of all, thank you very much for having me here and this is a very important discussion that we are having. See if you look at our demographic composition, two third of our population is below 35 years of age and that means, that many of them are already in the work force and many will join in times to come.

If you see this composition and see how India is position vis-a-vis other countries in terms of demographic advantage, our median age is around 28 years whereas, China is around 38 and Germany and Japan is around 49.

So, I see this skilling as an opportunity rather than challenge and our calculation suggest that 100 crore new people will join in the work force globally over next 25 years and every fourth person will be an Indian.

That means, every fourth dollar of value created anywhere in the world will be using a hand or a brain of an Indian. This is the opportunity we keep in front of us, we find that around 56 crore people are already in the work force, there are about 28 crore students who are in the school education and about 4.4 crore, 5 crore people Indians are in the higher education.

We need to run this as a mission in a mission mode in the country, 56 crore people who are already in the work force need to be reskilled, upskilled to be relevant in the emerging economic opportunity that is unfolding in front of us, 4.5 crore individual which are in the higher education, they will soon join work force. They have to acquire skills which are relevant for the work force and 28 crore students who are in school education, majority of them will actually do jobs which have not been created even now, because the way the economy is evolving. So, our approach towards these three cohorts, those who are in school, those who are in higher education and those who are in the work force has to be seen from this perspective is that there are 56 crore people already in the work force, 4.5 crore will join in next 3, 4 years and 28 crores will join over next 15, 20 years.

We have to have a strategy for all these cohorts and that is where NSDC is working and the role of when we say we are public-private partnership, I want to say that there are three P's involved in this, public institutions, private institutions and people themselves and all these three have to play their role to make the best of available opportunities and make integrate.

So, if I take example of a private sector, in today's competitive world private sector has to build sustainable competitive differentiation and that means, that they need work force which is which can produce at a global benchmark levels, quality and safety are top notch. Typically if you see in any economic construct, technology, capital and talent, these are the three levers for economic growth. Technology today is Indian companies have access to the global best technologies wherever they are. India is attracting lot of for FDI and sovereign wealth fund capital, so our private institutions are not constrained by capital and technology.

Then the talent becomes the most decisive determinant into this, so it is in the interest of the private sector to make skilling of the people who are already in the work force that is where the responsibility is to taken by the private sector. Where public sector can play a role is that preparing individuals who will join the work force and I will say that higher education ecosystem, there is a more role is to be played by academic institutions because they should be having a better information about the emerging world of work. Where government should play a more decisive role in the school ecosystem, because there is a there is a investment of time and effort involved. So, that is how I would say that the whole theme will play out, I believe that NSDC's role is to connect these dots and make this happen.

So, if you can spend a little time on the architecture of this. The organisation has been around for some time, I am familiar with some of the aspects, you know creating skill training missions, partnering with various people, funding also, skilling institutions and so on. But tell us about the architecture that is in place today and how is it rolling out in its mission or how is it rolling out its mission on a day to day basis.

So, just a brief background that NSDC was set up in 2010, at that time 2010 to 2015 it was largely an institution, which was providing funding for any training centre provider. In 2015 our honourable prime minister launched the world's biggest programme Pradhan Mantri Kaushal Vikas Yojana and until 2021 NSDC worked to implement Pradhan Mantri Kaushal Vikas Yojana. Post COVID we have pivoted ourselves and have now created four clear pillars of our strategy.

So, first of all we have created NSDC digital, we believe that digital has to become a platform, if we have to do this, perform our role at the scale and scope and speed at which this is to be performed, digital has to be the true vehicle.

And also digital skills, because the world is digitalising fast, everything today even somebody who is barely literate also knows how to make a digital payment, your mind driver should know more than driving skills should know how to navigate the Google maps etc. So, digital skills are becoming like a foundational skill, just few years ago we were focussing on foundational literacy and numeracy, now as a country we have to focus on foundational digital skills, because the economy is digitised here. So, NSDC digital becomes a implementation arm for this and has launched skill India digital hub SIT as a platform for skilling anytime anywhere.

The second vertical that we have strategic business unit that we call is NSDC academy, we believe that the national education policy has given us a never before opportunity to bring the world of work into world of education. And that is where we are working, we are trying to bring the global best work place practises into academic institution.

So, NSDC academy works with universities and the today we are working with global best names like Microsoft, NVIDIA, Apple, Google for certified courses within the academic curriculum. So, nobody has to go outside, we are setting up the future skill labs into the academic institution. So, that is and we are also working with IITs and IIMs to design minor programs which can be taken up by the students into tier 2 tier 3 institution.

So, effectively this is a very noble concept where it is a material which whichever institute you join for your undergrad program, now you have a ability to design your degree, while you will get major from the institution where you join, but you can get a minor you can do minors from the world's best technology providers or from IIT IIM. So, now imagine that this was not available when we were there and that is we started it about a year back, 1 lakh students have already enroled in 1 year itself. And there are there is lot of demand for these program.

NSDC academy is also working to create a new kind of ecosystem for school education. What we believe is that what we have to inculcate in the minds of this school going children, the entrepreneurship they have to have problem solving, critical thinking, because in today's AI world knowledge is available on demand. How do you contextualise that knowledge, how do you use it that those are the kind of things. Early exposure to newer technology. So, we are working with school department schools to bring AR, VR, blockchain give some hands on projects to students and they should be able to create something. So, NSDC academy is working with academic institutions with this 28 plus 4 and half crore. So, about 30 35 crore universe that is there.

The third area that we are operating is that NSDC academy also works, because national education policy has given you an opportunity to convert your work place learning into academic credits. So, we are working with lots of large private sector companies in India, where we are bridging a gap between academic institution. In first case I told that we are bringing world of work into world of education, in the other case we are taking world of education into world of work. So, I would not name, but one of the large carpets that we are working with is that we can how can be somebody who joined there as a diploma holder, how do we avail these work place learning to enable him to get a B tech at the work place. So, work integrated higher education programme that we are doing is a that is an opportunity for this for 56 crore people who are already in the work force that I talked about.

And this is already.

Yes. So, we are.

So, this is a very I think powerful. You are saying that there are people who are currently with diploma in let us say automobile engineering.

Yes.

Upgrading themselves to a B tech. Yes.

There is a three way arrangement academic institution, the employer and NSDC come together And all the all three are.

So, you are one the other two are willing partners or.

Yes. Yes. There is lot see first of all today if you see the carpets do a lot of training, but only HR department knows what is being trained nobody is able to convert into a tangible outcome.

Thanks to our education Mr. Shri Dhamen Pradhan ji we launched academic bank of credit. Now, you and I whatever we learn every single day if we can convert them into academic credit we can bank them into academic bank of credit. Now, you imagine that and we are working with financial institutions why should access to credit be connected to my civil score or my cash flow or collaterals to I will give you just one example that if I if you take a sabbatical today your civil score will go down.

Because you may have liabilities. And no income, but it is the other way round you have you are actually upskilling yourself and the moment you come out of this you will be you are far more credit worthy.

Income earning capability.

Capability that I call is a balance sheet concept that you and I build our balance sheets by acquiring newer skills upskilling reskilling ourselves imagine that just like companies can build their balance sheet their brand value is a intangible that we talk about. If today we have an opportunity that these intangible can be converted into academic bank of credit and you give me a new score for me which takes into consideration that I am upskilling myself these are the powerful.

So, this is a concept or is it rolling out or.

It is rolling out. Today if you see the government I will give lot of credit to the honourable prime minister the Vishakarma scheme that was launched PM Vishakarma scheme. PM Vishakarma scheme says that if you.

That is an older scheme right.

No, it is a new scheme. It is only launched 17 September 2023. The this is a first scheme in the world which says that if you upskill yourself then I will give you an access to a 1 lakh rupee loan. And if you further upskill yourself then I will give access to 3 lakh rupees loan. No collateral asked no financial history asked your upskilling certificate becomes your passport to credit.

So, it is a very large scale program and the RBI is working on a new financial inclusion document where we have had consultations with them. This concept is being baked into that your and mine you know that if you apply for a loan your if you are a graduate the banks have a different perspective.

But what we are trying to create is that skilling is more targeted. If I want to start a dairy business do I have skill certificate of that particular area that becomes more viable. And this is where the whole new paradigm will emerge.

And who will issue the skill certificate?

There are if you see we have now national credit framework under this there is a all academic institutions can issue credit certificate. And that is why when I told you that with work integrated degree programme that we are talking about is a 3 way arrangement. There is a employer there is an academic institution.

Academic institution has the authority to issue credits. So, in all these areas we are bringing academic institutions into picture because they have been authorised by the relevant authorities. But until now they have been working in silos.

What we are doing is that bring this regulatory power of these academic institutions to employers. And they should be able to work together and convert them into academic certificates.

So, that is 3 buckets you said you had 1 more.

So, 1 more is as I told you in the beginning itself that our demographic advantage is actually a big opportunity for us to play. Every 4th dollar anywhere created in the world will be through an Indian. So, we are working with foreign employers to open up these opportunities for India.

And I believe that there are 3 tracks to be pursued. One is migration track where lot of services will have to be performed in C2. So, that means, that we need to train people not only in the skills, but all the skills to the standard in which the employers or the regulatory system in that country requires.

Secondly, we have to skill them in the language of that country and the cultural aspects of this. So, that is a 1 track where people will migrate and they will work in those countries. The second track that we believe well the massive opportunity for us is emerging is the whole digitally delivered services.

The remote work gives an opportunity that just like we became coders for the world. We have an opportunity to become accountants for the world, the legal professionals for the world, the bookkeepers for the world, the medical transcription people. There is a whole range of services which we can perform from here.

And these are not only at the entry level. Just for your information, India is no more a back office or a call centre of the world. We are truly becoming innovation capital of the world.

The global capability centres which are doing cutting edge innovative work. 45% of all global capability centres set up anywhere in the world are in India. And more and more are coming to it.

So, effectively what will happen is that whatever happens in the world around this migration story. Ultimately all that will benefit in India in a one way that all the corporates will outsource that work to India and that is where the opportunity. So, this is a fourth vertical that we are this thing that our opportunity set not only exists for India, but also for growth.

So, I told you that migration is one path, the digitally delivered services is the path. The third area that we see is that how we can participate in the global work force is because of lot of geopolitical and supply chain reasons, the supply chains are being rejected. And India will thanks to the policies of the government of India in terms of the production linked incentive etc for multiple sectors, we have a truly great opportunity in front of us that we will become the manufacturer for the world, some part of the world. And that means that there will be lots of manufacturing facility set up in the country who will only be catering to the customer sitting outside the world. So, these are the three tracks through which Indians can participate in the global work force.

One is migrating to the other country, second is digitally delivered services and the third is manufacturing for the world.

So, you talked about, I will use million, you said 560 million work force.

Yes.

280 million people in school heading towards.

And 45 million in higher education.

In higher education. So, one of the numbers that often gets thrown around is the employability. India's skills report of 25 for example says 54 percent of graduates are unemployed.

Now, I am not saying that is the NSDC's problem, but where does NSDC most effectively plug the gap between what employers want and the employees or the work force that is available.

So, I would just like to do a realistic picture here. Most of the time when this conversation happens, it looks like that education system is broken. But imagine you and I, when we started.

No, it is a skilling gap. Education system is fine.

No, no. This always existed.

Yeah.

When I was graduating from my engineering college. But the only construct was.

Where did you graduate from?

I graduated from Madanmohan University of Technology. So, when I was graduating from there, my employer invested one year into me. There was a training programme for me and I was a management trainee in that.

Those days, the employment was for life. That you study and then you get employed for life. Now, what the world that is emerging is that employer and employee, this relationship is broken.

The employee is not this thing. So, education ecosystem always created a base level and the employers. So, now, because this is broken.

So, we should not blame the academic institutions for this. This is what has been. There is a mismatch in this.

And that is where the NSDC academy that I talked to you comes into picture. What we are doing is that we are, as I told you that we are bringing world of work into world of education. So, we are working with around 28 companies who are leading the technological innovations be this Siemens, ABB, NVIDIA, Apple, Google, Microsoft, name any one of them.

We are working with them. And their certification programs, thanks to national education policy are now being adopted in the curriculum of the student themselves. And the second thing that we are doing is that.

So, this is good for technical and engineering students. But then question is that 70% of our higher education students are in non-technical streams, humanities and commerce. What do we do with them?

So, as far as commerce is concerned, we are bringing lots of like TALLY, SAP, Oracle. These are the kind of competencies that our commerce students need. So, we are organising for certification of these competencies in the colleges themselves.

And as I told you that there is an opportunity that we can become bookkeepers and the financial partners for all over the world. We are bringing global programmes like just like we have a chartered accountancy in India. There is a ACCA in UK. There is a CPA, CFA in US. We are bringing them into academic institution. So, while studying in your B.Com, you can actually acquire CPA, CFA certificate.

So, let me ask you a question. You know, so you mentioned that when you started out, you spent a year with that company. And that is the case even today.

I mean Infosys has massive campuses only for training. And all IT companies, though IT companies is a small slice of the overall workforce, they all invest in training because this is a given that many of the people who come into and join them are engineers and maybe with good numbers. But they are not qualified for what they are supposed to do. So, but my question is really and in a way you already touched upon it. That 70% of students are actually not technical and they are in all these other areas. So, what is your intervention point? Where are you touching them and where are you trying to touch them in a way, in an effort to either upskill them or upgrade them?

Even for first instance that you talked about Infosys and other IT companies, they are raw materialist people. So, they have to invest in them. But imagine that if these people were skilled in the college it themselves, 6 months, 1 year that, so they spent 6 months, 1 year in the college.

Time, fee, everything they paid. Now Infosys has to pay for training them. Imagine if this could be done in their degree programme itself.

Now they are ready from the day 1 and that is where the productivity, imagine that how much productivity gains will happen. So, I am saying that it is highly desirable that educational institutions should prepare work ready student cohort. So, your question is about non-technical.

No, technical we have been able to crack. Non-technical as I told you, our intervention is the academic institution that we are meeting the universities and colleges and working with them. So, today we are working with few IMs in the country and they are designing the minor programmes for students who are studying commerce or humanities.

So, like India logistics is increasing. Within Indian institute of foreign trade, we have created a programme for freight forwarders, for people who handle the export, import kind of things. So, effectively what we are doing?

Can I ask you a flip question here?

Yes.

Why would an NSDC be required to intervene here? Shouldn't an IFT for example, I am not to hit IFT, but shouldn't they be doing this on their own?

See, if you see the world operates with the incentive principle. If you are an academic institution, what you are aspiring for is that you should be high enough in the ranking of in the global ranking. And academic institutions get to those ranks only if they are turning out good quality research work.

So, professor is most incentivised to do research and that is what they are incentivised for. Private sector is most incentivised for their quarterly results that they declare to stock markets. Now, this dialogue, they live in very different world.

These researchers, professors are doing research which may not be relevant for today's world or is not reaching or the private sector does not have the time to intervene. You need an intermediary and that role that NSDC is trying to bridge that I will have a conversation with private companies. I will converse with academic institution.

If you see, I told you that we are running IIT, IIMS, minors programme for academic institution. We are also establishing these connects that there are some institutions are good at something. Now, how do we ensure that the best part of that?

Imagine that Shriram College of Commerce is considered to be the best for commerce. Now, imagine that if I can bring Shriram College of Commerce best faculties into.

You are saying that because you are in Delhi. We are in Mumbai where people might disagree with you.

So, I am just, do not hold me for this. I am just giving an example that there are institutions of eminence and today they are accessible to only very few people who can come through their cut throat competition. In today's digital world, can we create an opportunity that a student sitting in Satara is able to access this and that is a even more powerful connection that we are building.

So, we believe that we are a connector company whose job is to connect what is relevant for the work force, what is happening in the academic institution with the people who are already in the work force or are aspiring to enter into work force.

So, I think the word connected is important because I am thinking plugs and jacks now. So, we have seen various schemes being announced. So, there is, you talked about Pradhan Mantri Kaushal Vikas Yojana.

There is a Craftsman Training Programme, Janshikshan Sansthan, National Apprentice Promotion Scheme. Then there are other efforts under the Jal Jeevan, Vishwa Karma which is the upgradation. The Skill India Digital Hub Platform.

So, some of this I can see where it is plugging in. But how do all these schemes and all these announcements which are made in subsequent years come back to you and or is it a contiguous process?

If you see over last one or two years, Pradhan Mantri Kaushal Vikas Yojana itself has evolved tremendously. It is now academic institutions are participating. So, earlier it was for school dropouts.

Now, the scheme has evolved into this that even the academic institutions are participating in this. Even private companies are coming forward and they are taking advantage of Pradhan Mantri Kaushal Vikas Yojana. So, the scheme itself is evolving.

What happens is that Government of India is doing a lot of work. But whether the individuals to whom these are targeted, how they translate this that what is relevant for me. And that is where and similarly a corporate, do they have time and motivation to interpret that which scheme works best for them.

And that is why I say that this whole connector role that we play. That we enter into a dialogue with a private institution or an individual to understand their needs. And connect them with the right government schemes.

So, government can only be a catalyst. So, public schemes can only be a catalyst. Ultimately people and the private institutions have to leverage them to for tangible outcomes.

So, that is the role that we are playing.

So, let me pick on two or three examples. So, Jaljeevan I just touched upon which is obviously to do with delivering water and connectivity. Let me pick on renewable energy and industry that you worked with.

Solar specifically. Energy as a whole. I was interviewing one of the PSU oil chiefs who said that you know we would love to hire so many people.

But we are just not able to find them. So, obviously he is referring to the fact that their needs or demands are higher than in terms of skills and value add. So, if you were to look at these kind of statements that often come from corporate India and I am sure you hear them too.

Where do, I mean again it is not necessarily an NSDC question. But how and where does India as a country address this larger challenge of maybe higher technology areas. Renewable energy being one.

The need for highly skilled workers at a very fast pace versus let us say the supply. And I am now approaching this from the lens of these three or four examples and I am sure there are more.

So, one thing that I would like to place here is that there is a mismatch in the expectation of the employer and the potential employee. See what happens is that typically if you see 90% of our force is informal sector. Because most of the large companies have outsourced a big proportion of their people intensive activities to subcontractors.

What happens is that when the private companies negotiate with these subcontractors. They drive them down to bottom and there is hardly any discussion about productivity. Which means that the market actually drives down the cost of doing the work at a minimum wages.

There is no skill premium. You would be amazed that if you go to a shining hospital how much do you pay? And how much a GDA nursing assistant gets paid there?

So, I think there is a this thing needs to be solved and that is a societal problem that we are facing. How do we signal to market that you should pay me well. Because I am skilled and I will be more productive at the work place as compared to.

The moment this happens the incentive will get created.

So, you are saying the companies who are looking for talent and are saying they can't find them should therefore be paying more or announcing that they are paying more and then you are saying the talent will come.

So, India does not have a job problem today. It has a wage problem. Because the levels at which the people are being paid we are into a welfare regime.

There is lot of the government over the last 10 years has done a wonderful job in the developmental activity. There is a switching cost involved. If I get lot of benefits sitting at home then there has to be something different.

And there I will talk about the labour code which is now being states have to adopt that. First time there are 4 levels of skills. There is an unskilled worker, there is a semi skilled worker, there is a skilled worker and there is a highly skilled worker.

Now that means the moment states start adopting them the minimum wages will be different for these 4 categories. Now that would mean that the minimum wages for say highly skilled worker would be very different from a semi skilled worker. This is an instrument where there now will be incentive on individuals to upskill themselves.

And the corporates will be able to discover that who are highly skilled and will be able to pay.

Does that relate with your own experience let us say in solar energy? Because I know that is an industry where people have often said that there is a skill gap and a people gap for that matter.

There are 2 issues. Many a times there are job market demand supply mismatch. That is not a skill mismatch because I need 100 people I am getting only 70 people.

That is only labour market mismatch. But suppose that I have a executive assistant. Yes 10 years ago the executive assistant should know how to type.

Today they should know how to use the voice transcription and things. This is a skill mismatch that the person is there, the person does not have the skill required for that. So my experience of my previous avatars in infrastructure companies is that the developer who pays for these projects does not have a visibility that what kind of skills are at my place.

Because there is on my payroll I know everybody. But somebody who is on a contractor's payroll and most of the time it is not even on the contractor's payroll because a cash payment may be happening to this guy. There is a discovery problem.

And this discovery needs to be solved. And that is where the digital platform that we are talking about. Now interestingly many corporates are coming forward.

We are working with them. Where they are saying that give me visibility of the person who is not on my payroll. He is on the payroll of a service provider.

So in Skill India Digital Hub we have built that discovery that you will be able to discover a skilled person. Imagine that we are also working on a concept like that any skilled person should be able to enlist on the Skill India Digital Hub. And suppose the person is a plumber.

And as a citizen I want to hire a plumber. And I go to Skill India Digital Hub and I search for plumber. I find that within 20 km.

Just like you find an Uber driver. If you could find plumber, electrician, carpenter. How powerful this could be.

And that is why this has to be done in a mission mode. That both individuals and corporates have to start investing into skill certification of these people. This will create its own mode.

Construction industry is obviously a big part of the whole skilled to unskilled range of workers. And it is a largest employer in any case. So are there any specific examples from that world which illustrate what you are saying either in present or in future?

There are some large EPC companies who have started working on this. Because they have a long tail of subcontractors. And even at the subcontractor level people keep on changing all the time.

And ultimately projects suffer. So some of the large corporates have started talking to us in terms of that can we have a skilled wallet. A skilled card of these candidates.

It is not a card issue. It is like can everybody have a QR code. Today if you call anybody from urban company.

If you go to the urban company app that person has a NSGC certification. So that is the urban company was the first who adopted this. Now there are many more companies who are working with us.

So that can we just have skilled NSGC certified workers. So that anybody who is coming to me. I have a confidence that the person is skilled certified.

And just imagine that for urban company worker you are actually ready to pay premium. So this means that if there is a signal for skill the consumers are willing to pay. We have to only ensure that this signalling happens.

And that is where we are working hard to build this digital skilled passport. For every individual so that the common person should be able to discover them. And should be able to pay a premium.

The day we are able to establish this. This will become an automatic self virtuous cycle of upskilling will start.

And where are we on this specific project?

Some large corporates have a good understanding of this. And we are targeting that.

Digital skilled passport right.

Yes so a QR code on your phone which you can share on whatsapp like this. We are thinking the way we are talking. I think that this first year itself.

We will be able to get at least 1 million workers certified on this kind of a thing.

And this would obviously be people who are in the informal sector.

Yes.

And you are saying that one of the ideas is that you have visibility from top to the bottom. Skill level, experience.

Not only for people who are in the blue collar work force. Even those who are suppose today when you write a job description for your this thing. You are actually looking for some skills.

It's not a degree is not enough for you. Somebody should know how to know digital marketing and things like that. That means that everybody should be able to signal this.

Even if you are a graduate or you have 10 years of experience. What does the 10 years of experience mean? That these are the skills at which I am available. So this digital skill passport is the go to thing for everyone. 

So let me ask you about AI now. I think in a way you may be touched upon some of the points already. Because you have talked about skilling.

You have talked about the ability to demonstrate that skill. And where we stand in that skilling journey. And AI is obviously a disruptor.

And you have the architecture to respond to it. But I think the question now is really the speed. Because AI is disrupting at speeds much faster than we can.

So even if you skill, to what do you skill? Do you sort of say okay let me teach you how to use chat GPT and deep seek. And some other AI, agentic AI and applications. Or do I try and actually keep running with the application side. And say okay if you want to use AI to become let's say a travel associate. Or a travel agent or something like that. So how is your thinking or how are you thinking about this?

So we believe that AI is a true opportunity for India to leapfrog into. It can easily add 200 basis point to our GDP growth if we can adopt this. And keeping this in mind we are working on a framework which is AI for few. AI for some. And AI for all.

So the whole construct is that just like when you drive a car. You need not know how the IC engine operates. You just know, you should now learn how to drive a car. AI that extent everybody should learn. That how, what are the AI tools that I can use. So AI for all is just is about telling people. And we have launched a programme which we call AI for Bharat.

Where we are trying to tell people. That you should know the finer nuances of that how can you use AI in your day to day work. That is AI for all.

AI for some is about those people who will be building applications on AI models. And that you require a larger work force who will be working on this. And AI for few is about those who will be doing on the cutting edge side.

That the GPUs, chips or large language models or SLM etc. There is a whole global opportunity emerging all over the world. So the whole world will look at India.

Engineers from here will be doing training of models etc. So this is the construct that this is how architecturally we should access this AI skilling issue.

And is there any area where you feel that represents today. Like the most cutting edge intervention that NSDC is doing. That people should you know maybe think about.

And use it to understand how let us say state intervention in skilling. As opposed to jobs can actually maybe help change the equation. Or what is the most current maybe?

I would say three areas. One is that NSDC international academy. Where we are training youngsters to go overseas.

How powerful is this that Israel during last few months for construction. Indians who have gone there, they are earning 2.5 lakh rupees a month. So imagine that in 5 years this person will earn about a crore and half.

So how transformative it is. Already 6000 people have gone. The potential is huge.

So that is one area.

Is it a little risky? Because they are I think working close to the border and so on.

No that is where I want to clarify things. That when we had.

That is not an issue. Because I think Indians always take up.

I just want to clarify this. That we have the agreement with the Israeli authorities. That Indians are not deployed in conflict zones.

We have a counterparty in Israel which is called PIBA. Population and Immigration Authority of Israel. We are on a day to day.

So the work they are doing is far away from.

Yes. They operate in the same area which are considered same for Israeli nationals. So I can assure you here on this platform.

That no Indian is exposed to any conflict zone. And they are as safe as any Israeli national is there in that location. So that is where I see.

You see lot of people are going in care work. In Germany, in Japan. So that is an opportunity.

So that is one area. That avail global opportunities. The second area which I talked to you about NSDC Academy.

Where we are working with the. In 12 emerging technologies. With the best in the world.

And getting the globally recognised skill certifications for students in the college itself. So that is another cutting area. That cutting edge intervention.

Where we are creating a pool of students. Who can participate. Who are employable anywhere in the world.

Because they are on the cutting edge of this technology. And the third is this whole intervention that we talked about. Is working with corporates in India.

And ensuring that the corporate and the educational institution work. For recognition of upskilling, reskilling work that they do in those areas. So that is a work integrated learning programmes.

So these are the three cutting edge.

Okay so question for you. So you worked in government. You came into private sector. And then you came back again. So what made you.

I believe that we should not compartmentalise. When I was working.

It is not very normal.

When I was working in. See even if you are working in government. Ultimately anything that you do. Is to be done through a private sector. I was in Delhi metro. I was in Indian railways. Any project that we want to do. We will bid out a private sector. And TC means ABB will come and execute those projects.

So it is a mindset issue. That even if you are in public sector. Your success depends upon the how well you coordinate with the private sector. I always had this mindset. That is why my transition to public. Was more seamless. And I thoroughly enjoyed. Only few things changed.

In public sector my juniors will call me sir. When I move to private sector. Everybody will call me Ved.

So these are the final ones. And one should. I thoroughly enjoyed that.

This institute that I am doing. Is a public private partnership. It is neither government.

Nor private institution. It is a mix of both. So I am very fortunate.

I thank god that. I have seen the flavours of three kinds of working. And I have thoroughly enjoyed my life.

Okay last question. So amongst the roles that you. That you performed. Which in a way. I mean. Not that it would have prepared you for this current role. But what perhaps. What maybe gave you the sense that. Here is this big gap that India has.

So for example. Let us say you found out about the NSDC role. And you said that okay. When I was in X job. And I. This is the biggest problem that I faced. That finding people. Or skilled people. That India has a skilling challenge.

So was there a point like that?

Yes. And I would. Give you few. There are many. But I will give you two powerful examples. Which hit me hard.

When I was in Delhi Metro. We were trying to bring Global Train manufacturers to India. And we wanted to put a trender condition. That if you win this bid. You will have to set up manufacturing facility in India. So many companies. Were pushing us back.

That we would. Why do you want to do this? We have a factory in Poland. We have a factory in Canada. We will supply you from there. You should only be interested in that. I used to tell them. First we are the lowest cost economy. Why would you go.

Why would you like to. Manufacture in a high. Labour cost economy. Than in India. So one day. One of these global manufacturers told me.

That you come with us. And I will show you. So he took me to his factory in Germany. There I realised that. What he said is that. For a similar job.

I have to hire 4 workers in India. And the moment I have 4 workers. I have to have a supervisor on top of them.

Now imagine that. And then I have to have a factory premise like that. I have to have 4 times bigger canteen. My social security. If you take all that into consideration. Your unit cost of labour. Would be probably cheaper. But unit cost of labour. Labour throughput is.

More expensive. It hit me hard. That we have a true productivity problem. Second time when I was in Sterlite. We. We had started building our.

Platform in Brazil. And when my team. Came back to me. And they presented the project cost estimate. I found that I am paying. Adjusted for.

Purchasing power parity. I was paying 4 times more. To a Brazilian worker. For similar work that I was doing in India. And I was. Surprised.

I am saying this is a purchasing power parity. Neutralised cost that I am talking about. And I said that boss.

This is just now not working. Why should we not send lot of workers from India. But when I went deeper. I found that a Brazilian worker. Is more productive than an Indian worker. And it makes.

As a private company. It made sense for me to pay them. But it hit me hard that. Ultimately it is a worker. It is my Indian who is suffering. Because they are not being paid well.

Just because we have not been able to. Skill them to a productivity level. Which a global competitive market force demands. And these are the two. Powerful examples. When the opportunity.

Was discussed with me. I thought that whatever I have. Ruled in my life. Here is an opportunity to. Give back to society. And that is why I chose this.

Wonderful note to end on Ved Mani Tiwari. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure talking to you.